Per your request Rick, here are some shots of the secretary my brother and I are working on. The measured drawings are from my grandfather who completed one for my Aunt but passed in 1956 before he was able to complete my moms. I really feel connected with him during this build because in addition to using his drawings, I am using his tools and the poplar secondary wood has my grandfathers name stamped on it.
Let me know what you think!

Chris

That's very cool Chris,

Not only is that going to be a killer piece, the story and family history behind is really neat as well.

I'm hoping you'll keep us abreast of the project as it unfolds.

Rick

Chris,

Looking good... That is definitely going to be a great looking piece when you are finished. Please keep us updated with your progress...

Whit

Keep showing the work. I love seeing work in progress. Do you know if your grandfather had access to an original or if he made the drawing from a picture?

I will ask my mom if my grandfather made the drawings off an original. My brother and I are settings up an appointment with the chief curator of the Chrysler Museum in Norfolk, Va. to look at an original Seymour Secretary they have on display there. I believe a trip to Winterthur is in our future! I'm eat up with it and my brother has the bug now!

The best work usually has a great back story..........nice!!!!

Well I'm not too happy with myself this week. Discovered last Saturday after handcutting dovetails in the sides for the secretary top that I was 3/4" short on my measurements. Of course we had already cut mortises in the sides for the drawer frame that will now need "plugs". Fortunately the "plugs" will be where the drawers are so they won't show. The construction on this thing is interesting, to put it nicely. No pain....no gain!

have a great day

Chris

Anyone please help! I have been searching everywhere trying to find the "correct" way to make a tambor door. Specifically, what is used as a fabric for the backing of the door( ie: muslin?) and what glue should be used?
Thanks for any suggestions you guys might have!
Chris

Chris, try to contact Rob Millard, he has made several masterpiece type Seymour projects. See americanfederalperiod.com for his website. Rob may even have answered this question in one of his articles on his woodworking side of the website. Otherwise no doubt some of the NBSS guys should know how to answer this question. Cal

Thanks Cal-
I have e-mailed Robert Millard and will post his answer. Chris

Hey!

Sorry, I've been all over the place lately and have neglected my duties to the 207. Lance recommends a canvas backer. I can't remember the weight off-hand, but I'll check when I get to school. We just use yellow glue to attach it. You spread a thin even coat of glue on the back of the tambours and then lay the canvas on. Smooth it gently but don't press it into the glue. You don't want' glue to soak through the fabric or else it will stiffen it.

Any more progress on this? I love this piece and yours is shaping up beautifully.

Eli

Thanks for the help and kind words, Eli. My brother and I haven't worked on the secretary for 3 weeks now. I do sub work for H & H Engraving and have been building 6 flag boxes, 6 pennant boxes and a Memorial box for them. Also, I am finishing up a blanket chest for my son for his birthday( similar to project 3 ). I am having trouble posting pictures to the forum at this time and have asked Tommy to look at whats going on. As soon as I can post, I'll add pictures. Thanks also for checking on the weight of the canvas.
Chris

Sounds like you're certainly keeping busy.

The normal cloth is unprimed cotton artists' canvas: 8 oz. for small tambours, 10 oz. for large. Yours definitely qualifies as large. The canvas needs to be pre-shrunk by washing it a few times.

Glad I could help. Hopefully we'll get your photo problems figured out.

Eli

Chris, just wanted to touch base and see how it's going your way.

Have you had any time to work on the secretary of late? I've been keeping an eye on the thread since it's such a nice piece.

Take care, let us know how it's going.

Rick

Hey, I love this desk and have been thinking of making something similar myself. The furniture I have made typically has used frame and panel construciton for the sides, with the frame being tenoned into the legs. In federal style furniture I often see what looks like a solid wood side panel and have wondered how does it attach to the legs to accomodate wood movement? Do you run the grain vertically so that it expands front to back along with the top and just attach it solidly to the legs?

Thanks!
Chris

C.W., I apologize for the slow response. I pm'ed Rick the middle of the summer about my situation. 2009 has been a rough year. My family and I have lost 2 members and I have lost 4 close friends. I will be getting back at it in the next month, my brother and I are really ready now to get working on his secretary. My mind and heart haven't been focused on the secretary and if I don't have the desire to be in the shop, something will get messed up or someone will get hurt. Enough of that, on to your question. I don't know if my technique is "correct" but I am sure you guys with the formal education can make appropriate corrections if there is a better way. I chop the mortise in the legs first. I then size the tenon on the side to fit the mortise. The grain runs horizontally for strength. I give ample expansion space at the bottom mortise for movement. On wide sides that run 12" or more vertically, I cut deeper mortises at the top, middle and bottom and cut the tenon to match the mortise(I will need to post a picture for you). I drill for a pin(dowel) at the mortise at the top, middle and bottom with the side tenon inserted into the leg mortise and clamped. I remove the side from the leg and elongate only the bottom hole in the side tenon. When I glue the sides to the legs, the sides fit flush with top of the legs and I only apply glue to the tenon from the middle tenon to the top tenon. I then pin all three holes by inserting the dowel into the hole dry and only applying glue to the last 1/8" of dowel before driving it home. I have no formal training, but this method has worked successfully for me. The wood will expand down where it is less obvious and will cause very little movement in the finished case.

I was totally expecting Tommy to send me to the minors in my long absence. I've been having computer issues and not been able to upload pictures. This is the secretary top with dividers dadoed in. The top and bottom boards are 1/2 blind dovetailed into the sides. All of the other boards are stopped dadoed from the back of the piece. As simple as it looks, I have been surprised at how much engineering goes into this. I guess having to take geometry twice in high school is paying off! We will be getting to the really fun part next, the tambors. After that comes the inlay!
I welcome all questions, comments and criticisms!

Chris,

Glad to see your progress. The piece is looking great. I'm glad you've been able to get back to it.

Hope to see more updates!

Whit

So did your father measure an original or is this based on an original?? Are you working only off a scale drawing to make this piece?? The piece looks great thus far. Thank you for sharing.

Fred

Fred-
Let me just start by saying your bandings are off the hook. Now a brief history: my grandfathers uncle(my great uncle) had a cabinet shop in Norfolk, Va. between 1900 and 1940. The shop built reproduction furniture in the Empire, Federal and Queen Anne styles. My grandfather apprenticed in the shop as a teenager. He then went on into engineering at Norfolk Naval Shipyard. I believe my great uncle's furniture was in those styles, not exact reproductions. I have searched for a Seymour secretary like the drawings I have and been unsuccessful. I believe the drawing I have is from many different Seymour secretaries although I have never seen any Secretary top like the two that I have drawings for. The drawings that I have posted were taken directly from my grandfathers 1/2 scale drawings. I am only working off the scale drawings to make this piece so my construction is based off of period construction practices. I plan on totally finishing the construction of this piece without fasteners or glue and then disassemble it and create a list of materials and detailed drawings.
Have a great weekend
Chris

Chris,

I am too humble for complements.... Yet Thank You!!! Just Curious....Do you own the first Seymour book by Vernon Stoneham??? I am pretty confident that their is a similar piece(s) like this in the book. It is not exact, yet you can see where your family craftsmen got their inspiration. I personally can't wait to make a Seymour Secretary. I am working as we speak on a Seymour Inspirational Line of pieces. Well you are doing great and keep up the great job.

Ferd

Fred-
I have the book by Robert Mussey. I have been looking for the book you mentioned and cannot find one. If you have that book will you post pictures of similar secretarys on this thread? What pieces will be in your inspirational line?
thanks much
Chris

Chris,

I will post some pics in the following days I hope. It all depends how crazy the holidays will be. The title of the book mentioned is: John & Thomas Seymour Cabinetmakers In Boston 1794-1816. Vernon C. Stoneman.

Fred

Thanks to Eli's suggestions and Cal suggesting I contact Rob Millard, we got the tambour doors done. We ended up using cotton duck canvas. With 2 washes, 2 dryings and quite a bit of preliminary ironing the canvas has worked fine. As per Rob's instructions http://www.americanfederalperiod.com/T%20desk%202.html the tambours went quite well. My brother wanted to alternate the strips similar to some of the Seymour pieces found in the Mussey book. To get look he was after I showed him how to quarter saw maple and mahogany for grain pattern. I took some 7/8" maple stock about 14" long and 6" to 10" wide. Looking at the end of the board, I found where the grain ran straight along the 6" to 10" width. When you cut through that part of the board you get the stripe pattern. To get the strips to the 1/4" x 3/8" size and not loose fingers in the table saw I used the following procedure; run the board through the jointer on the 7/8" side to get a clean edge. Set the table saw fence to 3/8" and raise the blade to 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". Run the board through the table saw on it's freshly jointed 7/8" edge. now you have a board that is split but you can still run safely through the table saw. Reset the fence to 1/4" and set the blade height to slightly less than 3/8". Run the board through on the flat on both sides, this will give you 2 pieces that are 1/4" x 3/8" and still attached to the main board. Now take a sharp knife and slice the two pieces from the main board. By doing it like this you get the desired grain pattern for the show face. Now back to the jointer to start the procedure again, continue until you've cut enough pieces to have the necessary number plus 5 to 10 extras. The jig I made to hold the doors is very simple. I figured the width of both doors and then added 2". I took a piece of 3/4" cabinet plywood and set up a 90 degree fence across the top and on one end of the plywood using 1/4" MDF. I used the measurement for the 2 doors plus 2" and attached another piece of 1/4" MDF at a 90 degree angle at the other end of the plywood. The strips must be prefinished on the face(3/8") and 2 sides(1/4") before gluing the tambour fabric(see Rob's link for detailed instructions). Insert the pieces into each side of the jig face down. Cut a piece of 1/4" MDF that is slightly wider than the center gap. When you push this in the center of the 2 doors it will hold al of the pieces tight to each other. The center piece might need to be trimmed a couple of times to get the correct fit( so that the pieces are tight to each other but so they lay flat and don't pop up). Apply the hot hide glue to the pieces, let it cool, place the fabric on the doors and use an iron set on low heat to liquify the glue.
Hope this makes sense!
Chris

Hi Chris.
Nice job on the tambors! I dig the striped effect. However, I'm not as sure about the flat tops. I'm used to tambors having a profile to them, but I guess the flat look fits the project better. I'm just more used to seeing the profiled versions I guess.
Either way, the alternating woods really pop!
Any special reason you used hide glue instead of contact cement?

Paul
the little inquisitive guy