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Townsend china table


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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 10 10:57 am   
Bench Dog
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dovetailer wrote:
That gives me an idea!

Making molding would be a great way to put off all that sawing and filing!


This would make a great tag line.

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 10 10:37 am   
Old Growth
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I have spent a decent amount of time in the shop but the going was rather slow on the gallery. A full day of scroll-sawing went well enough, but it took me another three to file everything even. The most unfortunate thing is that when I was finished, I concluded that everything was too heavy, requiring me to do heavy filing on everything again, taking even longer than the original filing. I spent a lot of extra time originally fitting my tools in the small holes that I later made big enough for larger tools. In the end, I am pleased with the result, but, counting sawing and filing, about 8-9 days to do what should have been 3-4 days of work.

[I have photos for this but they are on a camera left at a Thanksgiving venue in Alabama right now]

I took for granted that my patterns taken off the original were going to be "right" and that I didn't need to think through my adjustments too much. I had sawn out my marks in compensation for the added thickness for the design transfer, but that just wasn't enough. Lesson learned, hopefully. In the end, it is pretty hard to know until the piece is nearly finished to decide how light the piece should be.

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 10 11:00 am   
Old Growth
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Dovetailing the gallery proved more of a hurdle than anticipated. Not just a set of cleanly cut dovetails, these are very fine little buggers. Not only are they tiny and precise, I have a week in the materials, so I only get one shot at this. I chose this project to up my game in the precision department, so "bring it."

Upon layout, it was clear my toolbox would not suffice. I need to buy some cheap-o carving tools to grind for just these occasions, but I didn't have the patience to wait, so I used what was in reach: cold-rolled steel (I use this stock for table-gates). And I took no concerns about burning the tools on the grinder (and they didn't hold an edge long either) as their use was limited.

After dovetailing the gallery, I put a rounded edge on the top. I did this by setting a chamfer bit with a bearing (to follow the curved top) into my router table and taking off a light cut. I then used my trusty Nicholson 49 rasp and 8-in file to round over for the right profile. A light touch with a 6-in file followed with sandpaper finished off the edge. The dovetails are mitered at the top so that the rounded profiles meet.

Before glue-up, all of the piercings were retouched a last time with files and the sides were scraped and lightly sanded. Everything fit well, so glue up didn't require any clamping. I did use tape to lend a hand keeping the miters at the top tight. Post glue-up, the dovetails now need to be pared and the top edges need to be touched up to mate perfectly.

I am now in the short rows. What's left:
-carving the gadrooning on the bottom of the stretchers (already fit these pieces, will cover later)
-saw and fit pierced brackets
-make molding for table rails
-round edge of table top
-extend cross-hatching to the table legs
-scrape/sand top
-clean up gallery (at joints)
-attach gallery & attach top [i think I will screw on both to make adjustments possible if/when the top shrinks and also make both parts easier to finish---I would love input here]


Attachments:
19 shopmade tools.JPG
19 shopmade tools.JPG [ 614.54 KiB | Viewed 1109 times ]
20 gallery glued up.JPG
20 gallery glued up.JPG [ 1.13 MiB | Viewed 1109 times ]
20.1 gallery glued-corner.JPG
20.1 gallery glued-corner.JPG [ 1.16 MiB | Viewed 1109 times ]
20.2 gallery glued side.JPG
20.2 gallery glued side.JPG [ 600.36 KiB | Viewed 1109 times ]

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Last edited by dovetailer on Thu Jan 06, 11 9:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 10 3:28 pm   
Bench Dog

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 09 12:24 am
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First let me compliment you on your patient, persistence and skill

Given the level of completion the following comment is obviously only useful for future projects:

When comparing photo 20.1 with 20.2 it appears that perhaps the visual heaviness that you noted isn’t solely (or even mainly) due to the dimensions of the pattern (as seen in elevation) but the proportion of the thickness of the gallery to the dimensions of the tracery. As photo 20.1 clearly shows that when viewed on the oblique the gallery’s thickness appears greater than width of the tracery. If the gallery’s thickness was thinner than the tracery the gallery would appear much ‘lighter’ and more delicate.


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 10 4:59 pm   
Old Growth
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To clarify, I am happy with it now (as seen in the photos). It just took needless extra work to get there.

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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 10 1:43 am   
Bench Dog

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dovetailer wrote:
In the end, it is pretty hard to know until the piece is nearly finished to decide how light the piece should be.
Well it does appear I misread your comment, sorry about that. Since you are the client, if your happy then that's it, end of story.

I am curious about the basic proportions of the gallery. I took a look at the photo of your measurement drawings. There is a note stating '5/16" thick' adjacent to the sketch of the gallery. I assume that is the thickness of the scrolling in elevation? There doesn't seem to be any notes regarding the thickness of the gallery. Do you consider your version of the gallery to be typical (or conventional)? While I don't have specific evidence to support it, my view is that the thickness of wood should be less than the thickness of the gallery's scrolling in elevation.


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 10 10:18 am   
Old Growth
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I am not sure there's an implied relationship between the thickness of the two. I am making a repro and I did have that measurement (it's on the sheet where I took the pattern for the piercing) so I didn't go through the design exercise you bring up.

Thinner would make the gallery lighter, but more fragile. There's the area for the forces of design to make compromises. Again, I'm just doing my best to follow Mr. Townsend here, so I have been spared making that call.

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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 10 10:38 am   
Old Growth
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Regarding thickness of the scrolling/piercings vs the wood thickness, on some stuff the piercings can get very delicate (look at some English ones), far thinner than you could prudently make the gallery.

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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 10 8:14 am   
Bench Dog
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Matt,

Thanks for continuing to document this project. Townsend is an icon and it is a pleasure to watch you try to duplicate his work.

I enjoy watching your precision, or exactness, or attention to detail in your work, we can all take a lesson in that from time to time. Like the tiny little dovetails in the fret. I could imagine myself boogering them up (technical term?) due to lack of finesse.

Looking forward to seeing the brackets, molding, and the finish, so please continue with the thread.

Your impressed older bro, Cal

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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 10 8:33 am   
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Quote:
.....tiny little dovetails in the fret. I could imagine myself boogering them up (technical term?)
...yep probably the best discriptive term :lol:


I SECOND this
Quote:
Looking forward to seeing the brackets, molding, and the finish, so please continue with the thread.


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 10 12:38 am   
Bench Dog

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Awesome job. I wish I could do work like that.

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 10 5:01 pm   
Spectator

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Concerning attaching the fretwork gallery. About 10 years ago I made two china tables. They are not Townsen tables but are after china tables made by Robert Harrold of Portsmouth, NH. There are about 5 surving examples but only one still has its original fretwork gallery because that feature is so delicate. Jeffery Green's American Furniture of the 18th Century has a photo of it with surviving fretwork at page 71 and Heckscher's American Furniture in The Metropolitian has a photo of one with a replacement gallery at page 188.
I would send a photo of mine but havent figured out how to on this site. It can be seen along with various other pieces at this link

http://picasaweb.google.com/stallman214 ... eat=email#

I too was concerned about how to attach the gallery because of the time, stress etc involved in making it and having that delicate feature being effected by the crossgrain expansion and contraction. The originals were seated in a shallow dado and glued. I finally decided to do the same. That was 10 years ago and everything is just fine.


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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 10 9:39 pm   
Old Growth
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Marion, thanks for your input. Your photo link did not work for me. You may need to make that album "public." That sounds like a great way to attach the gallery. At this point I think I am going to proceed with my nutty solution, mostly 'cuz I think it will make the early stages of finishing easier. I like the idea of it being easily reversible using screws. See the photos below. Time will tell, I suppose. So far the top seems pretty stable, even in a garage shop that is seeing extreme climate changes in a week's time.

I actually finished the woodwork today. Will post tomorrow. Happy New Year.


Attachments:
21 gallery attachement.JPG
21 gallery attachement.JPG [ 1.09 MiB | Viewed 1001 times ]

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 10:16 am   
Old Growth
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Hey guys. Below you'll see me attaching the last piece to this table. The molding sits in a groove. For something that seemed like it was going to be pretty easy, but I found it pretty aggravating and time consuming to get the fit just right. Installation was easy enough: just miter and sit in groove. Because my fit was pretty tight, I used c-clamps and a caul to pull it up tightly.


Attachments:
22.1 molding.JPG
22.1 molding.JPG [ 800.91 KiB | Viewed 994 times ]
22.2 molding clamped.JPG
22.2 molding clamped.JPG [ 1.92 MiB | Viewed 994 times ]
22.3 molding-caul.JPG
22.3 molding-caul.JPG [ 970.61 KiB | Viewed 994 times ]

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 10:22 am   
Old Growth
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Ta da!

Woodwork complete just ahead of the new year.

Now to finish. . .


Attachments:
23.1 woodwork complete.JPG
23.1 woodwork complete.JPG [ 1.19 MiB | Viewed 993 times ]
23.2 woodwork complete-detail.JPG
23.2 woodwork complete-detail.JPG [ 1.02 MiB | Viewed 993 times ]
23.4 gallery.JPG
23.4 gallery.JPG [ 1.11 MiB | Viewed 993 times ]

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 10:24 am   
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DT TA DA 2 U 2. Nicely done Sir. I can't wait to see the finish on it.

Happy New Year.

Bruce

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 12:32 pm   
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regarding the molding around the apron. what did you attach it to the table with? a related question is the tiny bit of cross grain over the legs enough to worry about?

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 12:46 pm   
Old Growth
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molding attached with glue (yellow carpenters)

no, the few inches of cross grain is not a concern for me

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 11 9:03 pm   
Bench Dog
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Nice job Matt!

What's your finish schedule looking like?

Nice article in SAPFM journal.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 11 9:32 am   
Old Growth
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thanks for your kind words.

finish will be transtint and shellac
in the middle of the wet & sand regime now
undecided about filling the pores. what I do (combo of rubbed coats of shellac and sanding back subsequent coats to fill with shellac) works but it is way too time consuming.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 11 6:16 pm   
Bench Dog

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All I can say is WOW. You Hobbs are a talented bunch... Thanks for documenting the progress. I know what a pain it can be to stop and take pics, etc.

The detail is fantastic. I'm always impressed to see someone push through the tedium of such a project... Can't wait to see the finish go on!

Whit


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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 11 9:44 pm   
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Matt, your Dad is not big on pore filling either, he made that well known when I built my chair with him :lol: . Of course, he made a bunch of things well known that week! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I tried his method of spraying and sanding back. Sure it works, but as you mentioned, it's alot of work. After pore filling on a couple projects, I'm sold. Crevices are a pain though, but if you work it work it can look like gunk and grime.

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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 11 2:13 pm   
Bench Dog
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smitty wrote:
All I can say is WOW. You Hobbs are a talented bunch... Thanks for documenting the progress. I know what a pain it can be to stop and take pics, etc.

The detail is fantastic. I'm always impressed to see someone push through the tedium of such a project... Can't wait to see the finish go on!

Whit


See if you can get your hands on a copy of SAPFM's 2010 year end publication... 8-)

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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 5:29 pm   
Old Growth
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I'm still futzing with the finish, but it is more or less "there."

Cannot get my hands on a decent camera now, but here are some snaps from my phone. I'll follow up with some high quality pics in the next week.

Finishing this table has presented some challenges with all the piercings. I am generally happy with the path taken and the results, though open for suggestions for other ways to go if and when I tackle a similar project. I brushed the first heavy coat of shellac and did my best to limit drips and drops, but cannot say I was completely successful. After a few coats, I sanded fairly aggressively throughout, restained, and sprayed another 2 or 3 coats.

At this point, I wet-sanded the top and lightly sanded the rest of the table. I then rubbed/padded on the next coat or two as I find this goes a long way to filling the pores. After signing and spraying the bottom of the top to seal it, I attached the gallery to the top and the top to the base.

The wet sanding and rubbing resulting in some clumps of shellac in some corners and crevices. I took a dry paint brush to clean out the bulk of this, but not all of it. Spraying doesn't always soak clumps of shellac dust or dust on hard-to-reach surfaces in the piercings. So... I to the care to brush on straight alcohol into these areas, following immediately with clean cotton to prevent any drip edges. This seemed to work pretty well, though my cheap brush did drop a bristle or two and there were a few bits of lint here and there. But this step was pretty easy and successful and the issues were easy enough to correct with another wet brush & wipe.

The next step I took was with blonde shellac with a little of the Brown Mahogany Transtint dye I had used in the stain, spraying on a few good coats.

That's where the project stands at this writing. It's in pretty good shape all over, but the surface isn't perfect by any means. While perfections has never been my goal, I would like to have a smoother surface (minimizing the pores) on the top. I've put on a lot of shellac today and will give it an evening to get happy and work it some tomorrow, probably to include some sanding back and another rub coat, followed by a few light spray coats. Depending on my final sprayed surface and my emotions at the time, I may or may not steel-wool and wax.

Best,
Matt


Attachments:
photo (5).JPG
photo (5).JPG [ 888.24 KiB | Viewed 910 times ]
photo (3).JPG
photo (3).JPG [ 724.96 KiB | Viewed 910 times ]

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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 7:23 pm   
Bench Dog

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Really enjoyed the Play by Play on your table it looks great.

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