Chuck, help me out here, I'm not sure I follow regarding the backer.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

Rick

The small 5/32" strip of wood, which would be the front of the leg. You broke the jig that lets you gauge the 5/32" depth the leg is from the apron face. The face of the leg will need to be backed up or you can blow through that little 5/32" strip of wood.

In the attached picture you can see a shadow line behine where I am talking about

Oh sure, now I get ya. Yeah that's a good point, it would be easy to lose that. Not as easy as screwing up the paring block but easy nonetheless.

Thanks Chuck.

Rick

Rick,

Sorry to come to the party late (took the gkids to Williamsburg). 192 hide glue is fine.Thin it until it runs off the brush in a steady stream and no more. Slop it on, lay down the veneer, more glue and let it start to gel. Now the important part. You need an old clothes iron set on low, i.e. 140*. Use it to rewarm the glue when it gets too thick.

With your 1/16" veneer, you could prebend it on a hot pipe rig to help out but it's not necessary. After the glue has set, go back over the apron and find any loose areas, bubbles etc. Use the iron to heat those spots and rehammer.
Clean up the surface with a hot, damp rag.

Dick

Hey Dick,

I think the batch of glue I mixed up might have been too thin. I also learned a lesson about the iron setting. When I first started using it on the apron I had it set pretty high, I was surprised how quickly it melted the glue thru the veneer. I guess when it's green it melts pretty easy.

So you don't think the higher gram strength glue would be any benefit?

I didn't apply any heat to the veneer before glue up, but I did spiral it into a loop to help curve it some.



Dick, if you were going to veneer a curved surface such as this, what ratio would you mix your glue? I used a 2:1 ratio. What do you think?

Thanks for the input.

Rick

Rick,

I don't measure out glue. I put the granules in a jar, cover and let swell. Then I pour off any excess water and put into the pot. I thin the hot glue until it "runs" properly off the brush. It should be a steady stream and not break into droplets.

On curved work it also helps if you size the veneer when you do the ground. Hot sandbags clamped over the surface and left to cool will help eliminate voids. You can also dampen and prebend the veneer the day before. You want the bend to be tighter than the curve of the ground.

Higher gram strength glue is iffy because the higher the gs, the faster it gels and it becomes difficult to hammer.

Going to the SAPFM mid-year conference for the weekend. See you Sunday.

Dick

Dick, I hadn't thought of sizing the veneer also, I'll file that away for next time.

The hot sand bags sound like a good idea, what do you use for bags? How do you keep them from getting stuck to the veneer? Also at what temp do you heat them to before they are applied to the work?

A report on the SAPFM conference would be nice.

Thanks for the input.

Rick

Okay, in between running kids to golf practice, and working on the yard in 100 degree temps I did manage to squeeze in some table work.

I was to the point where I needed to create the sliding dovetails in my front legs and also do the joinery on the apron.

As Chuck pointed out there's very little material on the front of the dovetail on the legs. 5/32" to be exact.

So heeding Chuck's advice I devised a plan to support this area and also give me a guide face to work off in the endeavour to keep the straight portion of the joint straight.

Here's what I came up with...



What I have as you can see in the pic, is a spacer to support the bridle, an angled piece to guide my chisel, and a piece to both support the front portion and to guide the chisel to make the straight vertical cut. It worked quite well.





Now I can transfer this to the apron, but first I had to locate and mark the centerlines for the front legs. I did this with an angle finder I've had for years. My prints show these as being 56 degrees off center...



Then using the guide block I made, I clamp it to the apron and mark for the legs...





After outlining in pencil I marked it with a knife, I also drew reference lines on the front. Now I'm ready to generate this portion of the joint...



Well, that's all for now, I need to go move the water outside. I'll tell ya, after being outside a bit in this heat, the bunker feels pretty good!

Rick

Rick,

I made my bags out of light canvas amd heat them in a 150* oven for about 2 hours. Before applying the bags, remove excess glue from the veneer with a hot, damp rag and cover with Saran wrap. Clamp down the bags with moderate pressure and leave until room temp.

Make sure you put on enough glue. You can scrape up the excess and put it back in the pot.

I'll start another thread on the conference.

Dick

Okay, got to put some time into my card table today.

Where I last left off I had completed the bridle joints on the legs, and had everything marked on the apron to complete these joints. So I just had to devise a method of doing the apron that would work. I don't recall how Chuck did his, and I'm not sure what Latta does either. So, here's the way I did it.

First I put a straight bit in my trim router and just started to nibble away the material. I'm doing this free hand so I didn't take very big bites.



Once I was close I put a dovetail bit in the trim router and with the help of a simple fence finished the front sliding dovetail portion of the joint.



Had to do a little, but not much, chisel work to finish up, but they're done and pretty snug.



Now I'm ready to do the stringing on the apron. I layed it out in pencil to get an idea of what it'll look like.



The way I want to cut the groves is with my trim router. But the smallest spiral bit I have is an 1/8". I cut a groove in a piece of scrap but to my eye it looks to wide. I think I need to round up a smaller bit. I might check out the outfit that RW has been using for small tooling.



Hopefully I'll have more on Thursday.

Rick

Rick,

If your going to do a black and white stringing, that will have a total thickness of 1/16" . It is made up with a sheet of 1/32" black and a 1/13" sheet of holly veneer. My second apron had some string on it and I used my rotary tool with a Steward MacDonald base to cut the grooves with a 1/32" bit.

Amana makes a 1/16" router bit with a 1/4" shaft.

Too late, I ordered both a 1/32" & a 1/16" spiral bits from Precision Bits here about an hour ago. Hopefully they work.

The holly and black I got from Berkshire measures out at 1/16" when combined like you say. Of course it'll be just a smidge thicker once glued into a sandwich.

I guess I'll have to get to work on a thickness block now.

I roughed out some pieces of veneer today and will glue those up in the morning, still trying to decide if I want to use hide or yellow on that.

I also pulled some material for banding, I know I'm going to use some padauk, but since I haven't decided on a style I'm not sure what else to mix in. Probably need to make up my mind. I have a copy of American Furniture-The Federal Period by Charles Montgomery, it has several examples of banding and I'm most likely going to choose one of those.

If I run into any snags Chuck, I may be giving you a shout out for help.

Rick

Rick

There are a lot of different banding designs and most are fairly easy to figure out. One I just recently learned about is called lunette, which the Seymour's used frequently on many of their pieces. If your library has a copy of "John and Thomas Seymour 1794-1816" by Stoneman, check it out. On the FWW site, Mark Arnold gives instructions on how to make the lunette banding http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=29464 . I believe you need to be a member to view the article. L-N is in the process on producting another Steve Latta DVD, which will cover how to make both bandings and patereas. To view different bandings you can also go to Joe McDermott site to view 'Bouffard Freres' bandings http://phidesign.ca/category/bfreres/ .

Good Luck, again most bandings are not that difficult.

Lunette banding is ridiculous. It looks awesome, but it's a real pain to make, which is why it is so high style. I've hear a few different theories on making it and they all take a while. My classmate, Devin, made an absurd sideboard with lunette banding. I plan to make some, too, but watching him was not encouraging. It doesn't look fun at all. Freddy's got it down to a science. Devin ended up doing it his way... I think.

Eli

Chuck, I followed the link of Mark Arnold making the lunette banding. He has put together a real good article on how to do it. Lots of steps, a guy would have to set aside a weekend to produce a batch. I do have one of the two needed bullnose bits, but would still need the other plus the two corebox bits. I'm going with something a bit more straight forward for now. I should have some pics tomorrow.

I also got a packet of white/black stringing glued together. It turned out real well, I just hope I made enough. I went ahead and used hide glue on it, it works fine.

I also got a thickness block put together. It needs just a bit of tweeking yet, but it'll allow me to do a bevel cut like I want to. I'll have some pics of it tomorrow too.

Eli, is the method of constructing the lunette banding your friend uses much different than what Arnold does?

Rick

Rick,

I saw this post on Lumberjocks and thought it might be of interest to all those making inlay materials.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/18892

Looks like a cool set up.

Bruce

that looks kinda familiar....fed table video with steve brown...

Okay, while I'm waiting on tooling, and damn I wish I'd of had that thought out better up front. I've been getting prepaired for my stringing and banding.

First up is the two tone stringing on the apron. I had decided to do it with black/white. I have enough glued up for the table if I use it judiciously.











I went ahead and have been using hot hide glue on these and it's working out, but I have noticed that the second that hot-wet glue gets on my components I need to move because it starts to gel and they start to curl up. But, so far so good.

Next up is my banding. I've decided to do these with hard white maple and paduak. Plus some holly and black material for accent stripes.

First thing I had to stop and do was to create a new zci for my table saw. I always use these, but my normal ones weren't going to work properly with a 1/32 blade. So I made a new one out of some scrap.



No way the regular one could work with the micro blade. But the new one does, and I'm surprised by this little blade, thus far it's worked well.

I first used it in conjunction with my saw boat to cut maple strips.



With the maple I'm using edge grain avoiding end grain. But on the paduak since I want it dark I'm going with end grain for it. Which means my method to produce pieces was different. But in the end I came up with piles of the same size parts.



Thus far I've batched these up using veneer tape, otherwise they just go everywhere.



I also felt for these to turn out nice I needed to sand the first layer before the holly went on. I also had to change paper on the drum cayse what was on there was shot.



All better!



Now all that was needed was some holly veneer and then glue it up.







Now when this sandwich gets out of clamps I can rip it in half, stack it, and add the black and I'll have my banding log.

Maybe tomorrow I'll talk about my trials with the thickness block?

Rick

Yep, very similar deal and set up to what Tommy and Steve did in the video.

I went back today and rewatched the video Tommy does by himself with this technique. I can't think of a better method so it's what I'll be doing.

Nice find Bruce!

Rick

cool...its amazing how well a skill saw blade works on the table saw huh....too bad sawstop wont make a brake cartridge for a 71/4 blade...nice insert too...its a must...i am looking forward to the bandings.....awesome thread...i think your giving chucks a run for his money ...where is chuck?..summer is a busy time for him

Yeah Chuck did warn us he was busy till like late August or something.

And yeah, this little Freud blade has surprised me. It cuts clean (has 40 carbide teeth) and doesn't deflect like I was afraid it would.

I'm hoping to have the banding done sometime today. This is all experimentation as in the past any banding I've used I just ordered, this is my first attempt and making it from scratch. I'll be happy if mine turns out as well as Chuck's did.

Now, I had mentioned building a thickness block for stringing, and I did invest some time the other day fiddling with one. But what I came up with I wasn't too happy with so I just ordered one from LN Mine worked, but it wasn't very easy to adjust and to be honest as far as it went, I just wasn't feeling it.

Rick

i have that same little 40 tooth freud skill saw blade. works very nicely. i use it for segmented turnings alot

Hey Snake,

How is it we don't get to see any of your segmented turnings? Hmmmmm...

I've always thought those looked cool, but real involved.

Does your blade have the ice coating? Whatever that is.

Rick

Okay, finished up my banding today. It was kind of funny, when I took it out of the clamps it didn't exactly want to lie flat. This is not a balanced panel.



Now all I had to do was rip this in half and glue it face to face.





After a little clean up I think it'll work.





I also got my tiny router bits in from Precision Bits. I'm pleased they shipped these out so fast. I used to think my 1/8" spiral bits were small, but one of those seems huge compared to these little guys.



I'm glad to report that after recieving just a slight chamfer my white/black stringing fits perfectly in the groove left by the 1/16" bit.

Hopefully in the next day or so I'll get the stringing and the banding done on the apron so I can start on the legs.

Rick

Ive done a few of them. I think i posted them... not sure though

and yeah mine does have the ice coating. its expensive for a 7 1/4" blade but considering my 10" blades are worth like 80 dollars each the 20 for that little guy aint so bad.

I love the banding too!!! Ive really wanted to try out some veneering and banding. maybe a federal chess board is coming in the future