I have some book stands (in our monastery church) that were finished 20 years ago with, I think a poly that has since yellowed a bit. Now, the Abbot has had me make a few more to match. I've got the right material (red oak veneer plywood, plain slice) but I'm getting nervous about trying to match the "aged poly look". My plan is to take a little clear shellac and drop a little amber shellac into it and see what happens. I'll make a bunch of sample pieces with different proportions of the mix, of course ... but if any of you have other suggestions, I'm ready.

Thanks in advance!

Sounds like a fun project Father Mike... Make sure you post a lot of pictures.

Well, Rat, here's a picture for now.





I don't have others from earlier in the process. What I've got left is to install the stretchers on the top and shape the book rest piece and install that. Then, I've got some torsion hinges so the piece on which the book rests can tilt a little in order to change the angle of the book for when we sit down.

I'll try to send a sketchup image so you can see what I'm aiming at.

Looking good there Father Mike...

Have you considered manufacturing and selling these to other monasteries via the internet?

You could always name your web based store 'Monk E-Business'

Sorry Father, I just could not resist the opportunity for a really bad pun.

I forgive you, Bruce. The worst pun, they say, is the best.

Here's a sketchup image of what I'm aiming at:



And here's an "action photo" from our video showing the real thing being used:



Any suggestions for my idea about trying to match the color?

Father Mike,

I really can't help you out too much with your finishing dilemma. However, I think your plan to test out the finishes on some scrap should help you identify the proper recipe. Good luck with it and thanks for forgiving my pun.

Bruce

Love the Monk E-Business pun


I'd say, try mixing some aniline dye with the shellac. Or use some dye on the project then apply the shellac.

Somehow I managed to miss this thread.

You may need to use a background color under your finish to block out the grain of the wood a bit. It's hard for me to tell based on the provided picture but I'm assuming that you're trying to recreate a badly faded finish that's no longer clear. They sell products that are in essence a wash that you can put down first to sort of lighten and mellow out the grain to help match an older finish. They're just a thinned down pigment so you can still see through it. You may also want to consider bleaching the wood prior to finishing so you start with as light of a color as possible and then you just slowly sneak up on the color that you're after.

I'm happy to help in any way that I can so please feel free to contact me directly if needed.

Brian

Well, Brian, I'm hoping merely to very lightly spray (70:30 mix = alc.:shellac) some clear shellac to start and have a few sample pieces of the scrap left over for testing a little amber with the clear, gradually getting more amber. The existing book stands are REALLY orange --- that's 20 years of plain old poly on oak veneer, AFAICT.





I'll try what I've got in mind on scraps ... unless you think it won't work at all. You've got loads more experience with this stuff than I do! I'm always thinking to myself: this is all the stuff they left out of 4th year theology!





Many thanks to you! I'll look for a reply in the next few days --- otherwise, I'll start, God willing, before the week is over (on the scrap pieces, that is!).

By all means do as many test pieces as needed. It's hard for me to give advice based on the pictures provided...any pictures for that matter...as much of the nuances of a finish are lost over the web.

My offerings of using a block out color are just a very general approach to mimicking old finishes that we occasionally use around the shop. As usual though there's no one single way to get the look that you're after.

Monk-E-Business..... That's precious

And if I may lower the bar just a little more and throw a Monk-E-Wrench into the discussion, why shellac? Try tinting the shellac until you get the desired shade your after.

Perhaps too late but have you considered stripping and re-finishing the older book stands so that they more closely match the new ones?

Then tint the shellac and finish them all to match.

Well, as Tommy Mac would say: "easy-shmeezy" --- that's what I like about the shellac. Besides, I have almost no experience with all this! So, easy application, easy cleanup. I have sprayed polycrylic before --- also very easy. I think I'll top coat the shellac with the polycrylic for better protection.





That's the plan, Stan!





Well, the time for this sort of work is pretty limited here --- and I'd like to get them sprayed before it's too cold since we don't have an indoor room or booth for that. What you suggest occurred to me, too, but the time factor makes it pretty impossible.

After these 5 book stands get done, I've got 9 desks to make in addition to replacing a door and making a casket. Anybody want to come over and help??

Thanks for all the suggestions. Nothing like the 207 forum! You can be sure all the monks are praying for you.

Ok,, just so we are clear....... you are on a tight time schedule and ASAP means Always Say A Prayer! Got it. Good Luck Padre.

OK, fellas, here's the scoop:



Being impatient, I just grabbed a piece of scrap (same material as the new book stands) and wiped 3 coats of amber shellac ... without any prep. And the color matches the old book stand (next to it).


So, to prevent the grain popping, I should seal with a light coat (a few, I suppose) of clear shellac, then sneak up to the right shade of amber? That's what I think I'll try. What do you think?

It's possible but I'd think that the grain is going to darken with any liquid that you put on it, thus the suggestion to consider wiping a pigment on first to blend the background in a bit prior to finishing. Keep it in mind anyway as a sort of fail safe fall back position.

i tend to agree it looks like there is some pigment melllowing the grain.

I know its too late to change. looking side by side, are the originals made with Ash?

Father Mike,

The two samples look like a good color match to me. The biggest difference is in the grain patterns of the wood. To get a closer match you will have to do something to tone down the grain pattern in the new wood. Unfortunately, I have no idea how that could be done. I'm sure some smart guy here can help.

I'm wondering, just how important is it that they match perfectly? As my catch line implies, let us enjoy the differences.

OK, Brian. What would you use, a dye? Time is a factor here, and I'm not trying for a perfect match. The color, though, is what got me, in terms of how close it is --- esp. since this was just one scrap I picked up and wiped on the straight amber shellac, right out of the can!

I'll try spraying the clear shellac on a few sample pieces today and see what I can get with amber on top of that.






I don't really know what was put on the originals other than polyurethane ... and that was about 20 years ago.




AFAICT, the originals are red oak (plain slice) veneer, as is the new material.

Thanks again, everybody, for the help. I'll keep you posted if I strike it rich ... or have a disaster!

Looks like you nailed it from this computer. I would use a finish that was water white or crystal clear and tint it with colonial maple, then rub it down to a flat sheen so its not so shiny.

The difference in the grain looks like the 20 year old version is old growth, ring growth is tighter. Either the original maker laid up his own panels or was selective with the grain, looks like the cathedral grain is dead center of the bookcase side.

If you go this route you'll need a pigment based product and not a dye. I use japan colors for this purpose which are a pigment suspended in an oil base.

http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&mimid=10FEF323IZP04ULG7N96QOWXZNU5QXVK&pf_id=20%2E560%2E14324&dept_id=12884

It looks like possibly a raw sienna type color thinned down would work well. The idea is to apply it in a semi transparent form to the grain of the wood before finishing. Generally you just thin it with naptha or paint thinner and wipe or paint it on and take as much back off the surface as possible so you just leave a little in the grain to lighten it a bit and mellow it out. Alternatively you could fill the grain with a tinted wood filler that's the same sort of color.

I realize that for the average woodworker these types of products are hard to find and especially for a small job like this one. You just need to find a color that approximates the look of the old finish that can be used to block out some of the darker grain that's popping when it gets finished. It can be almost anything as long as it will dry and allow you to finish over it. Paint, stain, pigments.....whatever you can find in your area. Mix a bit up and test it out in a 2 inch wide section, mix some more a shade darker or lighter and put them all on the same board. Apply your shellac and pick the one that looks the best.

Or...just finish it as your planning and live with the differences. The contrasting grain will probably look far better then trying to match the old yellowed poly anyway.

Match looks good to me. I think exposure to light will darker up the lighter wood somewhat. This is similar to the problems matching old cherry. Once you get the match, the sunlight will darken it too much. Time just mellows everything out. I usually try not to fake the aging since the aging will happen no matter what and blow your careful match up in time. There is a big difference between 1 yr and no years but almost none between 100 yrs and 99 yrs. Just go with it as is.

Steve

Thanks Steve --- I got a close match, lighter and I think better looking than the grungy old poly. (A winter project this year will be to clean the old book stands). I'll get some pictures of the finished ones soon.

The process came out OK, but the spray gun got gooped up on me (not watching carefully and keeping it clean ). So, after cleaning up the uneven spray on the last couple of pieces, it came out not too bad. I'm satisfied with the results, but learned a bunch for the next time!

Thanks to everyone for the assistance.

Hi fr. Mike.

As my dad used to say (God rest his soul), "a day you didn't learn something is a day you're dead from the neck up!"

You were alive!

Paul
the wee lad

So, here's the one picture I've been able to take (the book stands are in the chapel and monks come and go so it's not easy to take pictures without disturbing anyone).




The book stand on the right is one of the old ones and the one on the left is one of the new ones. The color doesn't exactly match, but I'm happy with it since the old ones look grungy.

Thanks, again, for all the help!

And BTW, welcome back, Tiny!