Hey restoration guys,

my best half got a bench from a colleague
but it stayed a lot under the sun (2 years I think )
and some parts shrunk a lot
(there is a gap around a spindle I could almost put a finger into!!)

The wood is not rotten, tough some legs have broken mortises
and there are some cracks due to the sun exposition.
Do you think it is worth trying to restore the thing?
(it is not that bad looking)

Thanks,

-Ronaldo

I guess that depends on how much the "other half" likes the bench and how comfortable your couch is!!!!


"Is it worth it?" is a question that I constantly get in my business. The answer is that only you can decide if it is or not for the sort of piece like what you're talking about. If it's a period antique that has a market value then you can look at the worth vs cost of restoration to help decide but something like an old bench just depends on how much you like it and how much time you're willing to spend on it.

Sorry for not having a magic answer but this is something that's up to the individual to decide and what one person thinks is junk is another's treasure.

Probably not worth it monetarily, but as for the experience restoring it will give you, it just might be a great deal.

Paul
the little guy

Guys,

The idea of getting some practice in restoration
(always useful to recover from "life happens"
situations when making new stuff )
is nice even if the value of the bench is
not monetary.

Any ideas on how to deal with the parts
that shrunk too much ?

-Ronaldo

Getting practice is a good thing, especially for a furniture repairs. becaseu some day it might be your customer wanting somethign fixed.

With me I find projects that i'm not enthusistic about get piled up and take forever to finish. Then they end up taking up space adn time away from other things I want to do, or things I need to do for the Family and house.

Any ideas on how to deal with the parts
that shrunk too much ?


Either replacement or splicing in to add the needed length back.

Shrinkage usually means thinner but not often shorter.....

it was in width (if changed in length I would sell it as an oddity )
I will check the parts with more detail to see if really
worth the trouble, otherwise just easier to make a new bench
using the current one as a model.
I'll try to get back early and take some photos.

-Ronaldo

these splits/checks are bothering me

I'll have to rebuild the mortise of this leg as well.

here you can see some nasty shrinkage

what would you guys recommend for those?

-Ronaldo

I'd take a down and dirty, fast as possible approach to this one. From the pictures it's not worth spending too much time on. If it were in my shop I'd take it apart where possible and glue up the joints. Use epoxy on any breaks in areas where it can be non reversible and a reversible glue in the joints. Try to pull the back together if possible but if not just glue it up and fill the gaps with epoxy stick putty. The idea is to make it usable as quickly as possible.

The general dry open pore issue depends on what you plan on doing with the finish. If you want to try to strip it you're in for a mess because the paint will get in the cracks. I'd just wax it with a clear wax and call it a day or repaint it.

I have an old splint cane rocker with about 20 layers of green paint that was peeling off that looked about the same. I just took a brush and my air compressor to it to knock off the loose paint and then topcoated the entire thing in blonde shellac to seal in what was left. This way I wouldn't have green paint flaking off while I was using the chair. I just used a seperator clamp to push apart the joints enough to work some hide glue in the joints for the repair. The cleaning, shellac application and general repair took me about 30 minutes and the rockers been on my back porch for 10 years now.

Some people will pay good money for that kind of 'nasty'... that said, RaDioAcTivE has very good advice

thanks Brian, I totally agree with you on where to apply
reversible/definitive glue.
The legs have drawbored tenons, so I will have
to make to some pins (split oak should be ok.)

I plan to remove the blue paint and maybe stain
the bench (it is all in beech) when done with the restoration

I think it will be easy to knock it apart to
repair the joints, otherwise I'll just try to work
some alcohol to soften the glue
(it is probably old enough to be all animal glue,)
otherwise do you think acetic acid diluted in water
will be ok if there is some yellow/white glue from a
previous restoration?

jlsmith, if you know people willing to pay good money
for the bench, they are most welcome here

-Ronaldo

You're going to have a serious mess on your hands trying to strip this piece. Plan on using plenty of wash and several brushes to get the paint out of the cracks and crevices not to mention the open grain. Also plan on having to do a lot of touch up over the left over paint that will still be left over despite your efforts.

As far as the old glue...

If you try to knock apart a joint with a dead blow hammer and it won't come apart I'd just leave it alone unless you have to dissasemble something for a repair. Just work a little thin CA glue or drill a small hole and inject some glue into the joint as a reinforcement but generally if you can't get a joint apart and there's no need to do so for repairs then you can usually get away with just leaving it as is. Be sure to check for small brads or pins in the joints as well so you don't miss something and tear it up. Nothing better then the home repair job where some idiot drives nails into the joints and covers the holes up!!!

If the joint has to come apart a little hot water will do the trick 99% of the time. I sometimes add a bit of vinegar as well if it's hide glue but usually a few well placed strikes with a good dead blow hammer with a leather patch taped on the head for extra protection will do the trick.

or when they screw iron angles...

thanks again for the advice on striping the piece.
It is good to be aware of the traps in the process

about the joints, from a quick inspection only the
drawbored joints are going to be "hard" to disassemble
the others are shaky, so I really
do not expect much resistance there
(well you never know...)
For safety, I'll open and check all the structural joints
I do want to spill my wine after seating

-Ronaldo

I'm assuming by drawbored you are speaking about pegged mortise and tenon joints. You can either try to pull out the pegs with a small chisel or just drill them out. If you have to drill them use a smaller bit at first and try to stay within the pin. Keep in mind that they usually put them in at off angles so it can be difficult at times. Then just step up the bit size. I usually just drill out the hole a bit larger and use a round dowel as a replacement depending on the piece and how important it is to save the original parts. Sorry if this seems basic but I'm not sure what you're used to working on so I'm just trying to cover everything from my point of view.

One last thought on stripping as well. Consider trying to scrape the paint off where possible if it seems like it'll come off without too much effort. I can't stress enough what a mess it'll be once the paint is all softened and how difficult it can be to go to a clear finish afterwards on a dried out piece like yours. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that you had to take a wire brush to the piece to get the paint out of the grain.

HEY who is giving away all my trade secrets
oh and as to the buyers take a look at what good 'ol Rachel Ashwell of Shabby Chic fame is selling

Beat up painted furniture is all the rage in Atlanta right now!!

I have an entire box full of crap that I've pulled off of fine antiques over the years. Just about every sort of mending plate imaginable either bought in a local hardware store or on the old pieces made in the local blacksmith's shop.

exactly that!


No experience on restoration and just a little with building new
(just read a lot about both so far )
It is good to have all covered as it is always helpful
to the other members.


I am taking the painting off as you said, some parts are quite easy
and in others it does not come.
There is a layer of something like gesso below the blue paint.
I am afraid I'll have to brush a lot of cr@p out of the pores
if I go for a "wood" look...

All joints have glue failure but some smartass put nails on every
tenon, even the pegged ones
There are reinforcement brackets (wooden) on four corners,
with 4 big screws and guess what is between each pair of screws???
A nail of course
I will come back later with a photo.

I decided to take everything apart, even if it will take more time,
just to get rid of the nails (call me crazy.)
The seating part seems to have been adapted, I'll try to get some
info on what would be period-correct, it seems to be later XIX-th
but I am not familiar with "menuiserie en sièges" styles
("seating woodworking" no idea how it is called in English.)

They make a sort of core extractor for removing stubborn nails. You can get then with an outer diameter to match wood dowels such as 1/4, 5/16 and so on. It looks like a little hollow metal tube with teeth on one end and you use it to drill around the nail. Then you just fill the hole with a dowel after you've repaired the joint.

If it is gesso then the trade secret is muriatic or hydrocloric acid. You thin it down with water and use it to strip the acid. If you use this process you obviously have to be extremely careful and take all of the necessary precautions but it'll cut right though it and get it out of the grain. Don't forget to neutralize the wood after using this process with vinegar and water. I use this process on mirror frames that have been gilded over gesso to remove everything prior to re gilding.

****post edited to use correct term for the acid****

Safety note, Hydrochloric acid is very dangerous if not handled appropriately...

Concentrated hydrochloric acid (fuming hydrochloric acid) forms acidic mists. Both the mist and the solution have a corrosive effect on human tissue, with the potential to damage respiratory organs, eyes, skin, and intestines. Upon mixing hydrochloric acid with common oxidizing chemicals, such as sodium hypochlorite (bleach, NaClO) or potassium permanganate (KMnO4), the toxic gas chlorine is produced.

The hazards of solutions of hydrochloric acid depend on the concentration.

Whoops....I made a mistake here. It's muriatic acid and not hydrochloric to start with. I use the type that people put in their pools to control the ph. Muriatic acid is hydrochloric but it's diluted to start with and it's still wickedly dangerous to work with. I guess that's also why it'll remove gesso as quickly and easily as it does.

Around here they sell it in hardware stores to clean concrete with or even at the grocery store to clean drains. Once you have the piece stripped and the paint is removed if you have a lot of gesso or the calcium carbonate that's actually the part that's left over you can put the acid in a plastic spray bottle. Take the piece outside and be sure to stand up wind. Use a mask, thick gloves and full skin protection and just spray the acid onto the gesso. It'll start to soften and remove the gesso almost instantly but you need to use a brush to help it out. Then just rinse with water and repeat until it's clean.

Muriatic acid reacts to steel so be sure that there's no steel wool particles on the wood anywhere or they'll turn the wood black.

As always this information is given as a general background only. If anyone wants to try this please do your own research and learn all of the needed precautions before attempting something like this.

RaDioAcTivE OK that's more like it I was wondering but I am not in the business so... Muriatic acid is more understandable although I have never used it on 'inside' stuff, my experience is with washing bricks, concrete and such. Still, as you state, proper care needs to be taken to avoid injury...

dangerous stuff here, but if it what it needs to get the job done...
I'll strip the paint to see what lies beneath.

btw, this is maybe well-known, but it is worth remembering to
always add acid to water not the inverse.

FYI the reason one adds small quantities of concentrated acid to larger volumes of water vs. small quantities of water to concentrated acid is to avoid the instantaneous boiling of the water. Said boiling will cause splattering of the concentrate which can cause immediate damage to unprotected tissue. Be careful my friends and ALWAYS read, understand and comply with the Material Safety Data sheet for all chemicals that you use.

Bruce

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I confirm that
I strip some parts (as I could dissamble almost everything)
but after some passes I could get most of the blue paint off.


I could not find those, neither some steel tube where I could cut some teeth
to do the job (seen on a very good book about restoration I found on the library , the other books were too amateurish and full of errors )