Today starts the Sawdust Chronicles Build Challenge, lots of prizes...couple guys from the 207 have entered....Good Luck guys....I'm gonna be tougher on you guys, just kidding. Have fun with it, there's lots to give away. My favorite is a yr subscription to British Woodworking...that's pretty cool I think.

Starting date is today Sept 1......submissions must be in by October 31.....Nov 15 critiques and winners will be announced.

The criteria of the contest is here : http://bit.ly/c3P0MK

The theme is about presenting a SURFACE in an original way........... there are size constraints.

You can still sign-up until Sept 15th, but the Design Process for those aware has begun today.

The Fl Wood Rat is a past participant.

Neil

Oh gee, a surface... A surface? Oh my aching head! How ambiguous can you get?


I'm already registered. Now all I have to do is think of something! (sigh)

Paul
the stumped little guy

Hey Big T.......I saw your name come across the spread sheet. THANKS!!!!! With a little registration time to go, Rick's got 29 guys. Pretty good turnout.

Presenting a surface is pretty open......oh know not that word "open" again.

Big T, if this helps think about materials, maybe work in your leather experience, or how about thinking how a mirror might be used to reflect a surface,.....just thinking. How about the thought of lighting from below to highlight a surface??

Have fun Big T, its not about "the next big thing" and if I can help just ask....that's part of the mission of Rick's Challenge and why I agreed to help him.

Thanks Neil.
Actually, I have one or two ideas I'm mulling around in the old gray matter.
Believe it or not, one of them involves a Rubik's cube.

Paul
the little guy

Okay, here's a rough idea of my planned build...

A small table with a veneered top in the Louis cube pattern supported by a pedestal shaped like a Rubik's cube balanced on one corner with the opposite corner holding the top, and a square base with four cubes as feet. Haven't decided yet whether to cut my own veneers or not. I'd like to, but my saws aren't big enough to cut the ones for the cube. At least, I don't think they are...

Still have to choose the species of veneers and whether to go with all different woods for the six different cube sides, or go with a single species and color them to more closely resemble Dr. Rubik's popular toy. Still have to set the dimensions too. I'm leaning toward a 12 inch cube and something between 15 and 24 inches square for the top with a base around 50 - 60 percent of the top. Foot cubes around 1 1/2 inches.

This will be my first marquetry/veneering project so it will definitely be a stretch of my skill levels.

I'm planning on using Baltic birch as my substrate throughout. In order to keep it as green as possible, I'm going with Titebond !!! for the substrate and fish glue for the veneering.

Haven't decided on a finish yet. Leaning toward an oil and wax, but suggestions are welcome.

Comments?

Paul
the ambitious little guy

Hey Paul,
for me no comments on the design (no bias on your decisions), just comments on the "technical" parts


given the time constraints, I think you're better off buying the veneer.
Otherwise you'll spend time setting the saw (sharp blades,
absolutely perpendicular to the saw table) and also on cleaning up
the saw marks (unless you have a precision drum sander)


fish glue is appropriate when you glue metal to wood, as it have more "give"
than other animal glues.

what means do you have for gluing the veneer to the substrate?
if you have either a press (bunch of cauls and clamps will do)
or easier yet a vacuum press, I think it is better to use white/yellow glue
as they are "easier" (longer open time, no need to warm
the substrate) than hide glue.
In the case you can press the veneer to the table top
it is better to prepare the cubes
(I suppose it is this kind of cubes: http://www.artfinding.com/images/lot/_3 ... 986698.jpg)
on a stretched caul of brown paper (as it is done in marquetry)
then apply the whole motif to the substrate.
Otherwise you can glue piece by piece with a hammer,
but this takes time and also easier to mess up than with the
stretched caul (PM me if you want more explanation on this.)

Regarding the finish, I really don't like oil, as it is definite on the wood
(cannot take it off). A nice thin sealing coat of veneer applied with a pad
(as in "french polish") followed by some coats of carnauba wax
(way better than bee's wax, more resistant, anti static and shinier)
also applied with a pad, then "dried off" with 99% alcohol (guess what,
with a pad) and you have a nice glossy finish.

-Ronaldo

ps. do not forget the edge banding around the ply with about 5mm of solid
whatever if not visible ("sipo" Entandrophragma utile is a common option around here), or stock that matches the decor otherwise.

Hi Ronaldo.

Yep. Them's the cubes alright.

No vacuum press (darn it, wish I had the room and the money for one), so it'll be a caul job. I gave hammering a though, but not comfortable with my ability to do it with such a complex pattern.

Thanks for the glue tip. I asked the guys at Lee Valley here what to use and they suggested the fish glue,,, I guess they were thinking of hammer style.

Any suggestions as to which species to use for the cubes? I have some nice walnut I'd like to go with, but the other two are still up in the air.

Since the Rubik's cube has to have six different and contrasting colors, I figure on using a single light colored species (maple maybe?) and dye it. My experience in coloring and finishing is severely limited, so any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

As for the stretched caul, PM is on the way.

Paul
the little in over his head guy

P.S.

I think you used "veneer" when you meant "varnish" when speaking of the finish, right?
Or is this a technique I'm not aware of?

P

Big T...............are you making the veneer or purchasing commercial veneer????

If you are purchasing.......what species are you thinking or what contrast are you seeking. I may have enough in (not scraps) but to me extra pieces that I hang on to and use as backer or underside of bottoms and shleves.

Let me know and I may have what you need..........Neil

Tiny, If you use a maple veneer, you can use india (Indian) ink and use that to dye the veneer. With this process the greens and reds come out beautiful. The dye is available for most art or hobby stores for a couple of US dollars for a couple ounce jar. By diluting the ink you can obtain various shades.

Sometimes I will use maple with black india ink and I get an inexpensive and hard to tell if its not ebony piece of wood.

For more info:

http://www.google.com/search?q=indian+ink&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&&sa=X&ei=DNWLTOvVJIH58AbAkP31CQ&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QBSgA&q=dying+wood+with+india+ink&spell=1&fp=280187d6f0589da0

Good luck in the contest bro.

Tiny,

Hammer veneering is NOT hard at all. And if you have problems, you can always go back with a clothes iron on low heat and give it a touch up. I made my veneer hammer but you can of course buy one. Making one is simple and for a small project, you can skip the handle altogether. Just a 5"x4"x3/4" block of hardwood with a brass spline down the long grain edge. Polish up the brass, wax the whole works and away you go.

You could also try re-heating PVA glue to melt it and re-stick. Coat your substrate and let dry. Very quickly and lightly coat your veneer after taping it up. It will start to curl so move fast. A light touch with a warm iron and you can remelt the PVA on the substrate into the fresh stuff on the veneer. Or you can make a huge mess.

To get a very quick tutorial on making up collections of veneer squares (parquetry), head on over to http://www.woodmagazine.com and get into their video section. They have made some recent changes so I hope it is still there. Marc Adams has a demonstration of Lois (Louis?) cubes which is just about what you want. May require some registration gyrations to get in the site.

As to a small vacuum press, I have the RoarRocket kit that is intended for making skate boards. Works a treat on smaller stuff. I think I can get a 12"x12" panel in side the bag no problem. Less than $50, I think.

And I have access to a press than can handle 24" x 24" and probably larger up to 36"x36". The logistics aren't great but I might be able to press something for you. However I should think you can find somebody closer, at least in the same country the could do the same.

Thank for the suggestions, guys. I think I'm going to try the leather dye as I already have some on hand, being a leatherworker. All I have is black, and that's not a major color for the build, only the lines between the squares, but it's worth a try,

So, is everyone agreed that maple would be the best choice of veneer for dyeing?

As for veneering, I'm gonna try hammering the squares, but the louis cubes will be a tad small pieces to use that method, so it's a tape job and plywood cauls for that part.

Still looking for suggestions for the woods for the louis cubes.

Paul
the grateful little guy

Here are a couple of rough sketches of the top and pedestal. The top is a half pattern in gray scale as the woods are yet to be decided on. The pedestal is shown without base or top.

Hi Neil.

That's a very generous offer. Thank you.

I have some walnut and cherry already, plus a "sampler" of various others in roughly 8 x 10 inch pieces, but there's not really enough contrast in them to make the Rubik's cube look realistic. Thus the dyed maple idea. If I can get a decent amount of maple, I can use it in its natural state with the cherry and walnut on the top.

In total, here's the required veneer:

Top: roughly 1 square foot of each of three veneer species.

Pedestal: about 3/4 square foot of each of the six colors, or 4 1/2 square
feet of maple to be dyed.

Base: roughly 3 square feet of walnut veneer.

Other woods to be used:

Base, top and pedestal: about 1/4 sheet of 1/2 inch Baltic birch ply.

Top edging: about 1 square foot 3/4 inch solid walnut.

Feet: roughly 1 foot of 2 x 2 solid walnut.

I hope to use walnut as the edge banding and probably the base as well to tie it all together.

Paul
the grateful little guy

Here's the pedestal with the base attached. Just finished

There will be a large dowel running through the pedestal from the base to the top.

Paul
the little guy

Big T........later today I'm headed into the shop just to prepare for this week and I'll poke around and PM you with what I have.

N

Thanks. I'll check my mail now.

Paul
the little guy

lol a "coat of veneer" is what you got with "ikea-like furniture"
you're right, actually varnish in French is "vernis" which sound
pretty much like "veneer", so I got words a bit mixed up.

btw I'm preparing the reply on the "stretched caul".

tiny Paul, you can also use a single species and use the grain orientation of each lozenge to play the role of "three different" kinds of wood.

here is a crude view...


(a bit better, but this is straw marquetry)
http://www.marqueterie-de-paille.com/fr ... /im12b.jpg

Hi Ronaldo.

I got your PM about the stretched cauls. Replied by PM. Thanks.

As for using the grain as the difference, it's a great look, but kind of subtle. Too subtle for this project I'm afraid, considering the colorful pedestal I'm using. The Rubik's cube colors would wash out the top. I need to go with something more obvious.

I'm learning a lot from this build, which is why I entered the challenge. I think that's why the sawdust chronicles folks hold them.

Paul
the little learning guy

Paul

I see what you mean, you can use the same veneer
with different dyes and the grain orientation to
give more "flashyness" to the cubes, so it can
stand next to the rubik's cube.
Maybe maple and ebonized maple to maximize contrast?

-Ronaldo

Maple and poplar (find stuff that is light colored) seem to dye well.

Again with the Marc Adams videos, but in his marquetry video he outlines a relatively simple method for dying veneers all the way through. Pretty much just time and a little temperature. A large turkey roasting pan is also involved (isn't it always?). He was using RIT dyes but I think the ones that do NOT use salt. It's been a while since I viewed the video. Seems quite straight forward and he isn't much for hyperbole or overcomplicated methods.

I have a VHS copy of the video you can borrow if you think it might help you out.

However given the time constraint of the contest, making your own dyed veneers may not be an option.

And as you have discovered, you can order pre-dyed veneers. It might be worth a few phone calls to places like Certainly Wood and Contintines (spelling?, meh, Google will find it) to see if they can help you out. Maybe they would gather up short ends or something for you. Especially if you get them interested in the contest in general.

big T................plenty of Walnut and cherry.......not much in maple one 18" long 10" wide piece.

I'll pm you right not to see how you want it...........N

I think if I can't find what I need locally, it's time to check with Joe the woodworker at veneersupplies.com. He's given me some good advice before, so it'll be nice to sent some business his way.

He carries dyed veneers in several bright colours, so I'll check and see what colors he's got that might fit.

Paul
the little insomniac guy