I'll give it my 2 cents.
Back when I was doing part time woodworking. I wasnt doing enough work to need more than simple pen and paper accounting . It was not an efficent system but it did the job. I also was pretty bad tracking my labor, because then I would sneak down for 20-30 minutes at time to work on a project. Of course this made it difficult to figure out how long something actually took to build.

Which brings me to the questions.

What to do use to keep track of your finances, on a day to day basis before you hand over the stuff to your accountant?

How do you track the labor on a particular project?

Farms I have a day minder that I write down most of my daily activity in to track what I am doing through out the day.

Most of the time I remember to but some times I forget!! I also keep track of my milage in my van in this book as there are tax deductions for milage.

As far as finances I have a debit card for my buisness checking and a check book. I use the debt card mostly and can check balances on line at anytime.

I can look any part of the statement and know what and where it is I spent money on.

I am only one guy so that helps make it easy for my operation.

Nick

thanks for the relpy nbuck.

I assume you keep different client jobs time seperate if you do more than one thing in day..

How close track do you keep on your day minder? Do you track by specific task inside a given project? for instance: 2 hours design, 2 hours milling, 4 hours joinery, 2 hours sanding, 2 hours finishing.

I sometimes try to but in the end it ends up being a little less strict(or I'm lazy about it more like) I'm really not that methodical about it.

I typically keep track of what I am doing per DAY. I usually don't jump aroud a lot and plan to do most of a specific task in each day to help simplify.

On occasion I do work for a large clothing company, prototyping store fixtures for them and keep very strict hours of the work I am doing and for how long on each task.
I charge them hourly and show everything I do and am never questioned on any invoicing. Keeps them calling that and the fact that I am a good bit cheaper than a lot of the shops in the area.

Nick

I'm with Farms on this one. I'm real bad at keeping track of the amount of time I put into a project. I've tried a couple of different options and with my ADHD I get distracted and on to something else and it never gets written down.

I've been trying harder lately by having a book by the front door so when I come in I write down the time, and when I leave I write down the time and what was done. Hopefully this will allow me to better understand how much time is spent doing what.

I have a stop watch timer attached to my "book". Makes it easier to track times when your jumping to and from different projects. Some of the times, I usually forget to write in the book what I did when I hit the timer. (Old Age Himers)

My suggestion would be to treat it like a blog, and make entries every time you take a break. Coffee time? Jot down the early morning hours and jobs. Lunch the same. Coffee afternoon? You guessed it, blog time. Lastly, the last thing before turning out the shop lights for the day should be to make that final entry and to ensure the earlier ones for the day were made while it's all still fresh in your memory.

It will be a royal pain in the gluteus maximus at first, but do it often enough and it will become a habit. Habits can be positive things too. Just make sure they're constructive habits.

Paul
the little guy

Am I the only person who does fixed (actually, not to exceed) pricing with materials as an estimated and a tight scope of work? One of the reasons I work for myself is so I don't have to track my hours.

That's because of the documents we use. "Not to exceed". that's dangerous contract language. You never filled out a G701? If you have, you exceeded your contract amount.

NY
Dude this is a woodworking forum, why would anyone here be interested in AIA docs? So, no I don't use AIA docs for anything that isn't architectural services and any way I like to use "dangerous contract language" makes me feel all naughty.

Dude this is a woodworking forum, why would anyone here be interested in AIA docs? So, no I don't use AIA docs for anything that isn't architectural services and any way I like to use "dangerous contract language" makes me feel all naughty. [/quote]

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me the menu out front said "Going Pro". now the description on page one , paragraph 2 ,sub-section 3 said "Paperwork". Contracts are paperwork. AIA documents are not just for Architects. There for tin knockers, sparky's, carpenters, steel workers , and yes woodworkers. Some of us have two labels, furniture makers and Architectural woodworkers. I don't restrict what i do to furniture,if someone wants a lobby covered in veneered panels, I'm not proud, I'll do it. And sometimes we have to comply with AWI standards, and when that's in play, we have AIA documents flying around.

if anyone is considering "going pro" and you want to do business with a dollar value higher than 5k its a good idea to bone up on AIA documents. 5K in my state is the maximum recoverable dollar value in small claims. Sometimes....... you don't always get paid. And when that day comes I don't wanna be clutching a "not to exceed contract" in my hands.

Naughty or nice....be that as it may. You asked the question not me, "Am I the only one?". Yes..... yes, you are. A new guy just starting out thinking its ok to use not to exceed in the contract language to lull the client into a false sense of security that no matter what happens you will only be paying the stipulated amount, is flirting with disaster.

I can hear the conversation now, 'well mr customer here's my final draw on contract along with my request for payment and I have outlined all the extras that total $18,000.

"Well Mr woodworker I see your request and raise you one change order. Oh that's right you didn't submit those, because you don't use AIA doc's in the woodworking biz. So lets see , you don't have my signature on any document authorizing the changes to the prime contract , but I got your signature on the "not to exceed contract"..... You don't need me, to tell you, what happens next.

you used the words "scope of work" and "not to exceed " in a woodworking forum not me, and singled yourself out with "am i the only one" . I just answered your question sir the best way i know how. Yes, yes your are.

Ok, I'll see ya on the flip side over in Memphis.

Change orders are a good thing, I learned my lesson about those years ago. They are critical when it comes to cabinetry and related work. Construction bids are called an estimates for a good reason. A "not to exceed" contract sounds a bit scary. If your just building things in the shop, and don't have to worry about installation etc.

I know what AWI is, and back in the day probably worked on a few jobs that were. However I was far away from the business end of things then. I was a worker bee and just did my job to the plans and or code requirements.

I know of several people that add an extra 5-10% on bids for the inevitable final payment thats short.

Depending on the client I will use just a hand shake....

Yes that is my world and not for the weak at heart.

I have been run thru the ringer before (more than once)and know the value of contracts BUT man do I hate the need for that. That is not the type of clientel I want to work for and am lucky (for the most part)I don't.

Don't get me wrong I do have contracts and know when to use them.......

I use contracts and change order sheets for any job exceeding 2k, however that might change to all jobs soon, as I recently had a client not pay £360 for extras that we verbally agreed. I knew as did he that I didn't really have a leg to stand on, and it isn't worth the hassle going to court for such a small amount. This is the first time for me, in 10yrs, where a client has been not been genuine. I'm glad it was for such a small amount, and see it as a business lesson that only cost £360.

I try to keep a track of how long I take on each unit, by this I mean a drawer, or a door, or whatever, and work out case work by the metre. Free-standing furniture is priced individually. I'm usually only working on one job at a time which I have already priced, so if it takes a week, but I take four days I'm happy, six days and I'm sad . I usually go down the pub to celebrate or commiserate.....

A not to exceed price is comforting to the customer and is ok as long as you have done something enough that you know what it takes to get it done. Of course, a change order will modify the not to exceed if necessary. If the job is really out in left field then you might have to go time and materials but the customer will be reluctant unless they know how you work. I never go t&m with a contractor I do not know because they can really milk the hours and I am paying them to fix any mistakes they make along the way.

Steven Naslund
Chicago IL

Oh you have a leg to stand on sir. This works here and across the pond. Hell, it was created in England.

Quantum Meruit

Even with a small dollar value it opens the door to interest and damages. Contract or no contract. All you need to prove is that you "enriched" someone property. Photograph everything in the future.

I can second the idea of photos of everything. for one thing, they are your "catalog" of what you have done. Use a digital camera and keep the pics arranged in neat folders set up in logical order on a laptop and it can become one of your best sales tools. Instead of hust saying you've built a certain item, you can actually shows them the item, complete with detail shots.

Paul
the little shutter bug guy

Have a Pint for me!!!. Black & Tan please.

Bruce

Black and tan: half and half Harp lager and Guinness stout, right?

Paul
the little Irish guy

What? NO Tullamore dew????

Hmmm..... I may of exceeded the one...only a smidgen though.

I'm late to this forum but to toss out how we handle things here it goes...

Quickbooks pro to start for all basic business functions such as vendors, clients, invoicing, payroll and job tracking.

In the shop I have a time sheet for every piece we do. It has the client's contact info, an area for the scope of the project, an area for me to lay it out step by step on how I expect my employees to tackle the project and finally a section for whomever is working on it to write down their time each day working on it.

We tend to jump from job to job throughout the day so it's an hour here and an hour there but we keep a running total so we know exactly how many labor hours go into each project. Then I plug it into Quickbooks along with the supplies and other costs.

Great suggestion, I also use quick books pro. Very easy and user friendly program. But as with all computer programs, what you put in is what you get out.

So heres my take on all of this.
For years I did jobs on the side, I always gave a bill at the end of a job. Some type of typed paper work saying how much the work had cost. I also either worked by the hour, or by a quote. Then luckily I was able to work in the office of my fathers contractors business for 2 years. There I was able to see how to keep track of things, learn how to keep a file of your work and see how a well run business was run. I hated every minute of being in the office. But like they say things happen for a reason. Now that I am on my own working full time for my self I had to get more professional about how I run a business.

I do about 95% of my jobs on quotes.
A customer contacts me, I look at the job at hand, do a rough drawling, once ever thing is finalized I can then do a quote. I send them a proposal, they send it back signed with a deposit ( I do a 40% deposit to start a job. Only do I take the deposit if the job is over $2,500.00 or I don't know them some how and its for my best entrust.) Then its a mad dash to build the project faster then I quoted it. I usually end up right where I quoted.
Over the years I have been able to figure how long it takes to do certain things, going to get wood, how long it take to build certain parts of a project and how to figure wood cost, milling and what not. For me its just braking everything down, then adding it all together for each project at hand.

I have to say I am lazy to, I do not write down my hours for each project. I should but I don't. Maybe its because I am doing the jobs from a quote and it does not matter what I am making per hour at this point. I just keep an idea of my time in my head. All I am doing that for is to keep track of how much time I have left as to what I quoted the job. I think about doing it all of the time but never tend to do. Maybe I will start tomorrow.

Justin,
Do you have more than one project going at once?