All,

For a couple of years I have wanted to build a side table with a marble top to use as a serving table in the dining room. So....when I finish up doing some work for a neighbor (hopefully by the end of April) I am going to get started.

This post is mostly about my design decisions. When I say design, it is not REALLY design, it's more like deciding what I want to build and looking through all my references on 18th century furniture and seeing what I like the best, and trying to pattern my work. Although the table might end up an original, most of the elements are taken from an existing piece.

Some parameters were:
1- It will have a marble slab for the top.
2- It will be somewhat formal with some carved elements desired. I have been wanting to do more carving to stretch and practice my carving. The carving projects are few and far between - AND - I am not patient enough to just do practice carvings, like I probably should, so I need to incorporate it into this table.
3- I would like it to be 48" long, but it can't be too wide to work in the space in the dining room. Around 21" will be the limit. The height should be at or slightly above the dining table, so 30-34". (Concern-will it look long and skinny?)
4- It will be a Philadelphia Chippendale piece (because that is what I wanted).

So I went to the Dept. of State Collection a couple of years ago and was really taken by the carved chippendale slab tables they have there, and took some photos. So I decided to make sure it had cabriole legs and ball and claw feet. I sketched up a plan that was based on the table in that collection carved by Martin Jugiez(who was a prominent Philly carver in the 1760's). But recently I have been swayed by a table at Winterthur that seems to have a little more impact, the carving is longer down the leg, but softer in a way (this table is attributed to the Garvan carver, another prominent Philly carver who has yet to be named).

So here are the attached drawings. The overall half plan gave me a feel for the dimensions, and then you can see the two knees to compare the carving patterns. I lean hard to the Garvan carver table at this point. Hopefully in the next few weeks I can get started on the legs and take my wife down to the boneyard and pick out a sweet marble slab for the top.

Let me know what you guys think. I am very interested in your opinions in the two designs. And I plan to keep this thread updated with regular progress over the coming months, ala Chuck Middleton, the champion of the federal tables! Thanks, Cal

Cal-
Can't wait to see this piece being built. Please post a lot of pictures, I would like to learn how to carve a ball & claw leg. I am drawn to the first leg design. Also, as to making the top size pleasing, on the folding rule blog under jigs, fixtures and tips look ay the Fibonacci Gauge. The info there gives you the Golden Proportion rule. The way I figure it off the length, looks like the width would be 29 5/8" . You said the max width is 21". Using that width, the length would be 34".

have a great day

Chris

Cal,
Well I can honestly say which ever carving you incorporate in the knees you'll have a spectacular piece on your hands. I've seen a few marble topped tables before and really like them, the incorporation of stone and wood media.
I personally feel that the first carving sketch you posted being so vertical in nature will really accentuate the vertical-ness of your legs, making it appear really stately: tall and narrow. The second carving style if incorporate will keep peoples eyes focused on the "bullseye" shape and above along the aprons dragooning and back to the top.

I personally really like the first one, but don't get me wrong.. the second one has its merits.

Looking forward to watching your build.

Good stuff Chris, but what about this: If you use the golden section to figure the ht/length when looking from the front (which might be the more dominant view, imo). With the ht at 32, the length is 52, so the 48" length I have planned is not too far from the "ideal." Although the classical mathematics are interesting and certainly relevant, I'm not convinced they were used that much in the shops of Thomas Affleck or Benjamin Randolph. There were chairs at 39" high, 40 1/2", 42" 38" and every point in between that were pleasing to the eye...Thanks for bringing up the discussion because I had not considered it. CH

so very true, Cal-
no matter what the dimensions are, each piece must be pleasing to the eye. As my brother in law said to my sister concerning anything they did in a 1913 beach cottage the had, do you want it level or do you want it to look level! Gotta look right to the eye!!
Chris

Cal, I certainly hope you will share all the details of your table build. It looks like it'll be an impressive piece. As to your question concerning which leg carving to use, both are very nice with lots of detail. I've changed my mind which one I personally like best twice in the last 5 minuets, so you're on your own. Anyway, I'm looking forward to following your progress with it.

Rick

Cal,

I do hope that you out do the Federal Card Table thread. If you do, we will all learn a great deal of good solid information. Good luck on the project...I will be asking a lot of questions as you go along on this jounery

Looking forward to your thread with great anticipation.

Hey Cal..........this will be super!!!!

On your dimensions: I realize your server is open below; dimensions of a "server" defined as a small dining room cabinet, specific to store a set of china below, with 2 drawers on top, I've had very good success with 41" x 15.5" x 30.25. For a set of china with extra's (tea pot, 2 gravy boats, etc) I use 42" x 20 x 31".........the 20" depth performs much better as a true server and the added inches you have at 48" should take a bit of the boxy look out, from the lesser 42" length.

Cool Cal.............Neil

Cal,

I'm really looking forward to the build. One day I want to use Philadelphia Chippendale features on a chess table and your piece should provide a lot of info.

BTW, I can't say why but the first leg design is more appealing to me.

I think the second is better. You might want to give Gene Landon a call (his contact info is in the SAPFM member book if you don't have it let me know and I will email it to you). I know he has made a number of reproductions of slab tables at winterthur. He can probably provide you with templates etc. if you can let him know which piece it is. He taught a bow front slab table at the Olde mill a few years ago that is awesome. But alot more carving than your planning on.

Guys,

Thanks for the input. This week I am still messing with my neighbor's kitchen, and I have reached out to get some better photos of the Winterthur table (my brother was a fellow there several years ago). Tim, I appreciate the idea to talk to Gene. One of my to-do's is to visit him someday. Not sure if I would ever be able to swing a class because of the multiple weekend traveling, at least not for a long while....

Anyway I think I am pretty settled on my dimensions, and after I see the photos I will solidify my carving pattern. I will share a photo or two if I am able to get anything. Next week this will be getting started, at least roughing out the materials. I have some nice walnut 4x4s that will work out nicely, and walnut is an appropriate wood for a Philadelphia piece (mahogany might be better, but I have the walnut!).

Cal

A little progress....

Well, I did get some great photos from Winterthur, I will share some of them when I get into the carving.

But today after my daughters softball game (around 9 pm or so), I started working on the pattern for the legs. A good pattern will save a TON of shaping and corrections when you are doing the actual woodworking, not to mention keeps all the legs looking the same. I used some of the references I had and marked a few reference points and sketched the leg. I have always been a pretty good drawer, so it helps when I do this kind of work.

Then the pattern is cut out, not taking too many pains to be on the line, because I know that all the curves will be worked with rasps and files to make smooth curves.

So then I worked the curves with a rasp (Nicholson #49) and a medium file to smooth them out and get them in pretty good shape. Taking long strokes with the rasp held as parallel to the pattern is important to cut off the humps and not ride down in the dips.

My wife and I also picked out the slab for the top today, it is hard to describe but I'm pretty excited about it. Needless to say it is very heavy, so the table needs to be strong. I will leave a good amount of "meat" in the leg to be strong enough, but there is nothing worse than cabriole legs that are too chunky.

And last post of the night....

I roughly cut to length the walnut for the legs, making sure I have material for the knee blocks that will be added.

The material has some sapwood and minor knots, so I will try to avoid these when milling. And if I don't get it all, it's fine, I will just turn the good faces out.

Well, that's all for tonight. Hopefully next post I will mortise the legs and cut the profiles on the legs. Later, CH

Cal,

Do you always make a template and will you make a practice leg using your template to insure that the proportations will be correct?

Chuck,

If I am doing something new I always make a template. Of course if I am starting something similar or the same as before I will either use the old one or use it to develop a new pattern.

I usually don't make a sample leg, even though it is probably a good idea. Not sure if I will or not..Probably not because I have difficulty in general with the patience that is required to stop and make sure of things...In that past I have gotten away with it, and I do think I have a decent eye and can see things while drawing the pattern... Ok, now you are making me feel bad about taking shortcuts Chuck. Thanks....CH

So I have gotten a little farther the last couple of nights. Actually these are the legs I intend to take with me to the presentation on Sunday so I need to get to a certain point but not too far...

So the next thing I got done is milled the lumber. This table is a little bolder than usual, so the blank is around 3 1/16th inches, which makes for a pretty big foot, I will have to watch out for the feet especially looking clumsy. Then they were shuffled around to pick the best matching legs for the front, and to try to avoid the defects of sapwood and a few knots. So the patterns were drawn out and the mortises laid out.

Then the legs were mortised, while the blank still has its reference faces on the fronts, and the leg shapes were cut out. If anyone would like to review the bandsawing of a cabriole leg, chime in. The resulting legs look like this:

So now as usual I take out one of my favorite tools, the Nicholson #49 and start fairing the curves. It is important to maintain the square faces while you get the profiles, before any rounding starts. So now I have three of them profiled.

Next I will start rounding the legs in the appropriate places. All the shaping will be done before I start carving the feet. It really goes pretty quickly. Thanks, Cal

Cal,

First, are you making the legs longer than needed and will you cut the tops off after they are glued to the apron? Second, I have seen several different approaches to cutting out curved legs, like the cabriole legs...could you explain your method? Some people leave a section so as not to cut the way through and than come back after every cut is almost done, some will cut small bridges so as to keep the leg level, and other will just cut and tape the section back on, after all the cuts have been made they than remove all the tape.

BTW the legs are starting to look good...the ball and claw looks a little blocky right now

Did you make a full size plan of the table or a scaled drawing?

Cabriole legs:

1. Be sure of the layout. The knees need to be touching (or the back corners need to be touching. Make sure mortises are on the insides. Sounds easy, but trust me it can get screwed up. Also, mark the legs from the top or the foot, you will lose most of your marks on the outside faces.

2. At the bandsaw I cut the pattern on one face and wherever it is most convenient I leave a small bridge of wood (around a eighth or a sixteenth). It helps if the bridge is in a long grain position. If the wood reacts or twist a bit, or is too floppy it can be taped, but I don't prefer this because the tape obscures the layout lines on the adjacent side, plus when you saw through the tape the mess falls apart.

3. Now turn 90 deg and cut out fully the other face. The bridges should keep everything square so the bandsawing works well.

4. If the bridges are small enough and on long grain, you can simply pop off the first face waste pieces and the leg emerges. If the bridges are too large and won't pop off easily, don't force it, just go back to the bandsaw and cut it free (you might need to hold the piece up square, but it shouldn't be a problem). Also, I have made mistakes in the past on trying to break off the waste pieces when the bridges were in short grain or too large, causing tearout or splitting past the line.

I have heard many people say they have never tried a piece with curves, but it really is simple and opens up lots of new possibilities in woodworking.

And yes, I do try to leave a little on the top, just a habit, but it does help for clamping. It also keep the little square of wood above the mortise from breaking out when fitting tenons. Cal

Update:

So all the legs are shaped and smoothed at this point. Couple of points about shaping the cabriole legs.

- Make sure you know where you want the leg to be round, and where you want it to be square. And make sure the transitions are smooth between the two planes. I have seen many cabriole legs who have an abrupt change which results in an unattractive bump when viewed from different planes.

- If you want a leg to be round, start by chamfering the corners until you have 8 approximately equal facets. I start cutting the chamfers with a drawknife, for speed, but the drawknife is agressive and with the changing grain it is easy to go too deep. So I switch back to the rasp. It is important to stay disciplined, if you are like me you want to start rounding right away. So I force myself to systematically chamfer all the way around, to keep the reference of the original faces and keep everything uniform.

Now after the legs are scraped, I will start focusing on the carving. The feet are first. There are many good articles out there, such as Gene Landon's article a few years ago in FWW, and a recent one by Adam Cherubini in Popular WW, demonstrated by Chris Storb. The layout is simple, but key. The ball largest diameter and the ball diameter at the foot are laid out on the bottom. Also the toes are marked.

Then the toes and the ball, left as a cylinder from the largest diameter are roughed out with chisels.

The fronts are easy, the backs are a little trickier because you have to outline the top of the ball and relieve the material, because of the way the talons sit over the ball

Well, that's all the progress for now, I will be working on these feet for a couple of weeks, most likely an hour or two here and there. Any questions or comments please shout! Thanks, Cal

Looks familiar Cal, I will be keeping a close eye on your foot approach. I still have a lot to learn, I am happy with how mine came out but they don't look 100% right.

Keep up the good work.

Justin,

Yeah, pretty much the same thing. How's the drop leaf coming? You should be done by now, right? Thanks, Cal.

Wow! Just found this thread today. Not sure how I missed it before.

This looks really great Cal. Can't wait to see more!

Its on the back burner right now. I have other stuff to get out of the way first and then the nice weather means yard work time. I will be jumping back on it soon.

Justin

Got a little more work done on the feet and thought I would share a few of the steps along the way.

After the cylinders are formed, now I rounded the lower part of the ball from the biggest point down to the inside layout line on the bottom of the foot. This pretty simple to do with a straight chisel.

The upper half of the ball is a little more trouble, because you have to determine the limits, whether or not you will have webbing, where it will start/stop, etc. My feet will have webbing. So I laid out intersection ofthe top of the ball with the webbing and began chopping vertically from the top of the foot.

So after this process the ball can be rounded much easier.

Here I kind of scratched my head as to what to do. I decided to start hollowing between the talons on the front two quadrants. This is basically all end grain, so the carving is pretty tough. I sharpened my gouges. A bent gouge helps here are the hollow curves up into the leg.

So they are starting to rough in. I will have to keep refining until I am happy, right now I am concerned that there is way too much mass above the ball and not enough ball, but I hope to be able to keep at it and get them better. Until next time, Cal.